please forgive james

38 responses so far ↓

• Boone // November 26, 2008 at 8:20 pm

  nice video

• revelatorart // November 27, 2008 at 5:14 am

  I’m liking this new interactive stuff Tri! This is sweet!

• Lauri & Craig // November 30, 2008 at 7:13 pm

  This is going to be fun and interesting!

• Carlos Lamb // November 30, 2008 at 7:31 pm

  Let me know where I can help…getting folks connected, tech training, PDA’s 101, etc. God bless!

• Dennis // November 30, 2008 at 8:17 pm

  Welcome to the world of blogging, Tri.

  Since 2006 we’ve had the http://www.DennisMansfield.com site and have had over 70,000 hits. I plan on linking our blog to yours so people who are interested in “new wineskins” can come visit you.

  Keep up the good work.
  Den

• Ken // November 30, 2008 at 8:19 pm

  OK, I’m in. I like the techy stuff!

• Kate English // November 30, 2008 at 9:04 pm

  ooh, I’m excited and intrigued.

• Dennis Mansfield // November 30, 2008 at 9:44 pm

  Tri, I’ve linked your blog to my site. We’ve had over 70,000 hits at my blog, over these last couple of years, so it would be neat to connect interested folks to your blog.

  Get info going and start asking folks to comment. You will get an assortment of diffrent opinions.

  I’ll keep checking back.
  Den

• Robin Lee Hatcher // December 1, 2008 at 1:39 am

  Hi, Tri. Sorry you’re missing “the chip.” This cowgirl managed to love horses and technology. Go figure. Loved this morning’s sermon and am looking forward to the rest of the series. Looking forward to your blog posts.

  Robin

• Bill Miller // December 1, 2008 at 2:42 am

  Who is James? Is he related to Eduardo? Why does he need forgiving?

• Bill Miller // December 1, 2008 at 3:13 am

  Tri said many people in the country today think of the term “evangelical” as indicating someone who is hard, cruel, and demanding; and someone who acts this way in the name of religion. On the contrary, I have found Christians not to be overly aggressive, but rather overly passive and not responding vigorously. The contentious image of evangelicals was invented by the media and is not reality.

• Lynda // December 1, 2008 at 3:29 am

  Wow this is going to be great! Finally I can connect with those who really make a difference in my life more often. Thank you Tri, you always seem to know exactly what to talk about during service. You touched on some questions I have had heard many times. The way God blesses you with explaination is truly a gift. I look forward to blogging along with everyone else here.

• Birgit // December 1, 2008 at 4:16 am

  Bill, my personal experience is that a lot of the country and the world *does* see evangelicals in a negative light.

  I think a lot of that image *is* manufactured by the media, by “cutting and pasting” footage to make Christians appear in the worst possible light and by focussing on fringe groups like Westboro Baptist, but no matter if that image is based on reality or not, that is a public perception that we have to deal with.

  A lot of the world hears “Evangelical Christian” and thinks “right-wing, hate-mongering, fanatical nut case” – someone more known for what they are against than what they are for.

• Matt // December 1, 2008 at 4:25 am

  I am approaching this with some excitement and some fear and caution. I am excited about a comment made by Kathy posing the idea that James is us “the church.” That the church needs to apologize for being absent and hurtful in its approach to non-believers. For turning eyes and ears away from the poor (not talking about the Vineyard here but more generalizing the evangelical church. For bitterly protesting Homosexuals and abortion clinics instead of loving these people. For being more concerned about a stone with the ten commandments on it. Wonder how many people that lawsuit would have fed…oh and the stone is still gone.

  Matt

• matthew harrison smith // December 1, 2008 at 4:46 am

  i believe we have different viewpoints of who the “media” is. this may be a tangent, but we can not vilify some vague obscure entity and accuse it of various shortcomings.

  i do not have cable or satellite or an antenna coming into my television. i get my news on-line and try to use diverse source if possible. bloggers are not journalists for example.

  (this conversation may need forums or we will be reading a LOT of comments)

• Julie Spencer // December 1, 2008 at 4:55 am

  I think that James is everyone! YOU ME US Them!!!

  I just have to say that I was quite pleased with Tri’s message as last night I went to bed feeling pretty disgusted with a TV commercial that I had seen during the Channel 6 news. It was from a local “Christian” church and it started by talking about the “wrath and judgment of God”.
  And then went on to say without Jesus you would go to hell….and while I know a soul without Jesus is a lost soul…this is NOT the way that Jesus woos us to Himself..this is EXACTLY what Tri was talking about the 7 characteristics of the Heart of Christ…COMPASSION!!!
  The Lord is gracious and compassionate ..slow to anger and rich in love!!
  I was sickened by the commercial and embarrassed . If I had one minute to advertise Jesus on TV it sure would be about HIS LOVE and Grace …not by telling people they are going to hell…trust me I am at the womens prison preaching the Gospel and teaching of His love. Trust me I have been there!!! Don’t they know that people are already bleeding and hurting in this sick and dying world . They already feel bad – really bad about themselves!!!They need a LOVE message not a fear message! If I went in to teach the women with fire and brimstone I would lose them!!
  Then guess what happened . I was so condemned after being angry over the stupid “Christian ” commercial I had to talk to God about how I feel.
  Often I am sickened over the right wing political religious crap …we “Christians” often give LOVE a BAD Name!!!! I believe that religion often kills! Please live like Jesus ….use words if necessary.
  Blessings Julie

• Birgit // December 1, 2008 at 5:00 am

  Matt, I have a Mormon friend, for example, who immediately assumed that I would want nothing to do with her if I found out her religious background, simply because her experience with evangelicals has been so negative . Once they found out she was LDS, much of the interaction with her degraded to Chick tracts and attempts to tell her how stupid she was to believe what she believes. So yes, there certainly is a very harsh side to Christianity.

  On the other hand, I think the media tends to run with the negative so much that even people who never personally had a negative encounter with a Christian still tend to hold a negative image of evangelicals. I know that is certainly true in Germany (where I come from.)

• leah // December 1, 2008 at 5:12 am

  What’s going on? Am I the only one who is confused here? Everyone is excited, piqued, political… Do these people know what is going on? Are they just joining in with vim and vigor and no idea what’s about to happen? I’m not not excited about “IT”, I’d just like to see what it is! I know a couple of guys named James and believe me I’ll be calling them to find more clues!

• leah // December 1, 2008 at 5:13 am

  I just posted the previous comment and it’s 10:09 pm. There is no way in the world I’d be blogging at 5 am!

• jasonchatraw // December 1, 2008 at 5:22 am

  Hello, everyone! It’s great to see so many people already on here sharing ideas and thoughts.

  However, I wanted to help lay some ground rules for the discussion forum so we don’t get sidetracked or start any distracting conversations:
  1. Please be respectful and civil in your posts toward others.
  2. Try to keep your posts on thoughts, comments and questions regarding the messages and others thoughts, comments and questions.
  3. Any comments containing political comments or political undertones will be edited or removed all together. We want to keep this forum focused on the topic at hand and not to stray. (It would simply be a much larger conversation than this blog could contain.) Do not be offended if your post gets edited or deleted. It’s nothing personal. I promise you that this series has nothing to do with Republicans or Democrats … just people.

  If you have any questions or concerns offline, feel free to email me at jason.chatraw@vineyardboise.org

• Dennis Mansfield // December 1, 2008 at 6:00 am

  Grace, be encouraged that God’s hand is so merciful and our political answers are so fragile.

  Whatever we believe “it” to be, most likely it isn’t. As someone who expended a great deal of energy in the political arena for years by casting others in less than honoring light, my request of you is to forgive whoever you need to and be flexible with how the Lord is “in process” in all of us.

  Dennis

• Grace Gambrell // December 1, 2008 at 6:06 am

  Dennis,

  Thanks so much for your response! I completely agree; I forgot to mention in my previous letter that I am not only in need of forgiveness but also, in need of forgiving others… I only hope we can look to Jesus and His teachings on peace and kindness instead of to our country to carry out “justice.”

  Thanks again,
  Grace Gambrell

• katie // December 1, 2008 at 4:04 pm

  does this work?

• Matt Gambrell // December 1, 2008 at 4:27 pm

  Hey all,
  I need to apologize to anyone who read my post before the editor got to it. I am very passionate about where I am at in the Lord and some times…actually many times….words just come spewing out of my mouth. I still believe those things but I can certainly do better at expressing myself in a loving manner.

  I am excited to interact and learn things about myself as it relates to the journey in the Kingdom and as Jesus shines his light on my dark heart.

  Peace and Blessings to all,
  Matt Gambrell

• Grace Gambrell // December 1, 2008 at 4:43 pm

  Yes! My heart aches for the Bill Mahers of this world. And to be honest, I think that they stay away from religion, even Christianity, for a good reason; I believe they see the injustices in the world (and see the hand Christianity has played in many of those injustices) and, in their own efforts, are trying with all of their hearts to live their lives in kindness to others (and that means not going along with the religion they’ve seen).

  Infact, I beleive these people are the strongest followers once they begin to believe (similar to how Paul resisted w/ such great effort).

  In conversation with a co-worker a few months ago, I realized he was pretty hesitant about putting his faith in a God who could sacrifice His own Son, thinking that, “if He was willing to give up His own Son, would He not also sacrifice me as well?” I explained that God loved us so deeply that in order to bring us back to Himself, there was no other option, and that Jesus, seeing His Father’s love for us, and how His heart ached to be with us, chose Himself to give His life (that it was both/and; that nobody forced anyone). But I did find it interesting to see it from his viewpoint.

  I really like how Donald Miller puts it in the intro to “Blue Like Jazz…” He writes of how he did not particularly care for jazz music until he saw someone, who very much loved the music, playing it with all of his heart. It was then that he decided he liked jazz because he could see someone else loving it. Maybe it is like that in the Kingdom of Heaven (while we live it here on earth)… Maybe when those who don’t believe can witness those of us who do in acts of forgiveness, kindness, generosity and love, then they will see it differently…

  Grace Gambrell

• just me // December 1, 2008 at 8:38 pm

  Question 3, both interesting and thought provoking. How would I share with Bill? The first thing I would establish would be his intent. Does he want to “debate God”? If so, it might be a very enlightening, intellectual discussion, and maybe he would concede the possibility that God exists, or that “some” people have a “special” relationship with God. Period.

  If he told me he was sincerely trying to find out – well, God has promised that those who seek Him will find Him. That would mean he might be at the place in his life where he is willing to be honest and humbly be transparent before God.

  Scary thought for Bill, that he might actually be a human being that needs a relationship with God. Takes him out of the control picture. A sincere, personal relationship with God would turn his world upside down – he’d be a parriah to the mainstream media – he could no longer hide in their numbers in safety and point out extremist spiritual behavior as an example of someone who is a true believer, or in the words of Micah (6:8) “…what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God.”

• Morris Hardy // December 2, 2008 at 1:19 am

  Thank you all for having input. I have enjoyed reading the blog. So with that note, I will add my two cents…
  After much thinking about this “James” character, I have my own opion.
  I believe James is everyone of us! I think of a blank maniquins face and then cast your own face apone it. The “church” is made from everyone of us. The forgive James is to forgive our own selves and then ask forgivness from other people that have viewed us, “the church” as opionated and bias.

  No judgement, just forgiveness.

  Morris Hardy

• Bill Miller // December 2, 2008 at 3:04 am

  I really liked Tri’s distinction of “social justice” and “Biblical justice”. It explains much of what is happening in the country today. The reason it is hard to be effective in evangelism is the following. God’s way is not one of forcing someone to do something. Since Christians cannot reply in kind to someone who wants to force a political solution on the culture, we often end up being quiet. But there are other ways to reply. Tri’s showed the way by emphasizing relationships. A caring relationship that reveals a heart for God is the kind of answer that furthers God’s kingdom on earth.

• Marcus Beresford // December 2, 2008 at 4:11 am

  James and me,
  I liked Morri’ input. Not used to blogging I posted my first entry in postings by mistake. I feel James relates both to the disciple and me, for I am a disciple like him in some ways.

  The disciple James and his brother John asked Jesus if they could sit at the right and left sides of Jesus, putting themselves above the other disciples. On another occasion they suggested calling fire down from heaven to destroy a Samaritan village that was not friendly to Jesus. Like them I have been self righteous, arrogant and judgemental. Many times I have wanted to be served and many times I did not want to walk in the shoes of a servant with the heart of a parent.

  God the Everlasting Father and Prince of Peace loves all His children, believers and unbelievers alike. God’s love for all His children is absolute, unchanging, unique and eternal. If I am an authentic Christian I should have the same heart to care for others with the compassion and love that Jesus shows in today’s sermon taken from Matthew 9. Yet is hard for me to comprehend that my Heavenly Father has the heart to forgive the very worst of us; even those who have hurt me. Like James I love Jesus, but have not loved as Jesus loves. Please forgive James, for when you forgive Ja-ME-s you forgive me.

• scram // December 2, 2008 at 4:12 am

  We are all James and i enjoy getting people all over me,that is why church and fellowship is so important to me to fill my spirit with positive outlook’s so as when i encounter the broken hearted i am able to pour out what GOD has so freely given me(Thank’s GOD)

• scram // December 2, 2008 at 4:16 am

  I love

• Camille // December 2, 2008 at 2:21 pm

  I think one of the first things we have got to own as Christians is that as long as we are perceived in a certain light, it is reality.

  What I mean is that we can debate how we’re seen and whom is responsible for misconceptions…we can share anecdotes and our own experiences. But that won’t get us anywhere until we just admit that as long as SOMEONE thinks poorly of Christians (and therefore Christianity, Jesus, and God), we have work to do.

  A few years ago I had an acquaintance who made an obnoxious comment to me about Jesus. I mentioned it to my husband, and instead of being equally offended, he said, “Wow, she must have been really hurt sometime.” I think that has to be our approach – we have to understand that many many people have been hurt by well meaning Christians.

  For me, it changes the tone of my approach.

  And for what it’s worth, this is ultimately not about Bill Mahr , his tone, or beliefs – he is one of our most valuable resources because he says what people think! Thank God we’re listening.

• James // December 2, 2008 at 2:51 pm

  i suppose there are those who can never be drawn into the embrace of our loving
  Creator… simply because of their own power to choose darkness over light. And choice is the ONLY thing any of us can claim to be his/her own in this mystery of creation designed by God. Choice is huge, and since i don’t, by nature, like Bill Maher, I’d better choose to love him in the manner of our Lord. He can sort out “whosover will, or will not come to Him. I just want to learn his unconditional love. -longwriter

• Matt Gambrell // December 2, 2008 at 3:56 pm

  I think for me….I am like Gov. Huckabee. I really like Bill Maher. When I see he is on a talk show I do my best to watch it.

  I think the reason I like Bill is he is right about a lot of things. In the video he asks, why is there suffering in this world. He is implying that God sits by idly while hunger, death and suffering happens.

  I believe that we are James…we being “the body of Christ.” In being the body we are the hands, feet and light of God. We are the vessels through which he shines to those in any form of darkness…whether that be hunger, disease, depression, addictions, etc. I think what Bill is really asking is where is the hands of God when this stuff is happening. I think the answer is the hands of God are the believers on earth. So guys Where are we?

  That being said…I am proud to be a part of a beautiful community and pastoral staff that are reaching out and being the hands of God. I just know in my own wicked heart I can still grow and make a bigger hand print.

  Peace and Blessings to all of you…I love you all very much.

  Matt Gambrell

• scram // December 2, 2008 at 10:23 am

  I do not ever want to forget the place’s I have been and the reason’s I was there,GOD was oh so waiting for me to come to Him and as most people from where I was( deep in my own worldly mess) I felt not loved or even a chance of being accepted by the people I knew let alone anyone from a church;Then GOD lead me to the Boise vineyard.
  Tri is so where GOD has asked him to be,as well as Tim and so many other staff member’s the morning i attended seeing Tim in his carhart overalls gave me a feeling of possiblly not standing out in a crowd.GOD knew the only way to get my heart was to speak of unconditional love! I had that for my daughter and wanted it for myself.As I wright this that feeling of complete love is causing tear’s to well up in my eye’s(Thank’s GOD)
  I look for the place GOD want’s me to be every day! and listen for the one angle it take’s to reach another scared broken soul that may not even know that there is such a thing as UNCONDITIONAL love and acceptance,I thank you all for showing me that and ask you all to forgive me for being as suddle as a fright train ( GOD is not even close to being done) I will be here till I am called to leave,I love the heart of GOD my father and try to put myself out there as well.For a world that has never known the love my GOD my father has for them.

• Lucas // December 2, 2008 at 11:48 pm

  Blogging can be a double edged sword, unless we only say things we would say in God’s presence. I was reading 2 Kings this morning and was struck by how annoying some of the prophets, esp Elijiah and Elishah could be. Jonah was pretty annoying too. Although we may not always communicate correctly or even willingly, that we do so for God is the only necessity. He will give increase to our poor power to add or detract.

• Marcus Beresford // December 3, 2008 at 1:41 am

  As I pray and align myself more with the Please Forgive James adventure I realize that it is really about how we can change our hearts as Christians and as a Church. We are often in the position of a brother towards the unchurched, regardless of who they may be. Brothers often antagonize each other and this has been going on since the time of Cain and Abel. Cain tried hard to give an offering, but Abel’s offering was accepted. Cain felt pain and resentment at Abel. But did Abel contribute to his own death?
  I suspect Abel had a certain arrogance – my offering was accepted, yours was rejected, na-na–na –ne na. How would such an attitude have affected Cain? Perhaps he thought that if Abel was not around then God would have accepted him. So if I get rid of Abel my problems are solved.
  Is this relevant today? I believe we can and should learn from history.
  When Christianity enforced the government of tyrants such as the French monarchy the people rebelled i what became a terrible and bloody revolution.
  England was saved such a fate because of two brothers – John and Charles Wesley who raised the true spirit of Christ through the Methodist movement. Nevertheless the industrial revolution soon brought a surging desire for material wealth sweeping across the society of Europe. To have this wealth meant that countless millions of starving masses shouted bitterly in he industrial slums. The promise of salvation came not from heaven but from earth. Its name was Communism. Christianity, though it professed God’s love had in reality become a dead body of clergy trailing empty slogans. Naturally the people revolted against such a seemingly merciless God.
  It seems to me that aetheist Communists have the same heart as Cain. If I get rid of the Christians who stole my blessing and who think their Democracy has been blessed by God, then we will have peace and the ideal socialist world where everyone helps each other without Christians and without God. So kill the Christians, destroy the Christian democracies and have our Peoples democratic Republics. Isn’t this also the heart of the militant Islamic terrorists who attcked us on 9/11. the end justifies the means.
  So our challenge is to rise from the heart of the arrogant blessed brother to the humble brother who seeks to share his blessing with his elder brother and lead him to heaven. Once we accomplish that I feel we have to go a step further to rise to the heart that Jesus has for Cain, the compassionate heart of a parent. Once we do this Christianity will be able to achieve God’s promise of salvation for the present era of mankind. The means justify the end
  So I ask what is stopping us?

• Dennis // December 4, 2008 at 7:26 pm

  Does “Christianity” achieve anything? God’s promises are real whether anybody or any aspect of our faith believes them…or believes in them.

  Look at the life issue. Even atheists are now becoming supportive of “life”, even though they do not (or will not) see the creator of that life. (see the blog below for the link..it’s interesting.)

  It’s not a system…or an attitude…it’s Jesus animating our dead bodies and spirits. he is the author and finisher.

  Us, we just get to be active spectators, don’t we?
  Dennis
  http://www.DennisMansfield.com

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