Many of your comments have expressed the heart of what this PFJ series is all about. I loved Camille’s comment on yesterday’s post–and I wanted to share this with you in case you haven’t read it:
I think one of the first things we have got to own as Christians is that as long as we are perceived in a certain light, it is reality.
What I mean is that we can debate how we’re seen and whom is responsible for misconceptions … we can share anecdotes and our own experiences. But that won’t get us anywhere until we just admit that as long as SOMEONE thinks poorly of Christians (and therefore Christianity, Jesus, and God), we have work to do.
A few years ago I had an acquaintance who made an obnoxious comment to me about Jesus. I mentioned it to my husband, and instead of being equally offended, he said, “Wow, she must have been really hurt sometime.” I think that has to be our approach – we have to understand that many many people have been hurt by well meaning Christians.
For me, it changes the tone of my approach.
And for what it’s worth, this is ultimately not about Bill Maher, his tone, or beliefs – he is one of our most valuable resources because he says what people think! Thank God we’re listening.
For today’s discussion, share your thoughts on some of these questions:
1. Have you considered ways you can use your personal experiences to share with others who have been offended and hurt by the church?
2. How can we change the perception people hold of Christians?
3. In what ways can you find common ground with unbelievers in your life to talk about issues of faith?
20 responses so far ↓
Robin Lee Hatcher // December 2, 2008 at 4:37 pm
Through the years I have learned a couple of things about sharing my faith:
1) People can argue points of Scripture or even say there is no God. But when I simply tell of the changes in me & my life, they can’t argue with that. They may think me deluded, but my experience is still my experience.
2) Often people will be upset not because of a hurt in their past caused by Christians but simply because, whether or not they know it, they see Jesus in a Christian. People were and are offended by Jesus. When He walked on this earth, He disrupted people’s belief systems time and again, and they took offense.
I came to Christ through the prayers of others, not from what they said to me because I wouldn’t let them tell me anything. But they were there and I was watching and I saw something in them that I knew I didn’t have and it made me want it too.
Deana Smith // December 2, 2008 at 1:06 pm
I currently attend school full time for my Bachelor Science degree in Environmental Health. Being Science based, I have ran into alot of people that do not believe in God. When I first came to Christ (soon before I started college) I would get my feeling hurt and even angry by those that questioned my belief. I would take offense to what they would say and as a result would put up a wall, or raise my voice to try to get my point across. But that only pushed them away.
Now that I have grown in my faith I have learned to be more patient and loving with my responses. We need to ensure that we are creating an inviting atmosphere for those to share their feelings (like Mike Huckabee did). Sure, they might not change their views, but it can plant a seed.
Also how you live your life is reflective on to others: your actions, the way you talk, etc. I like the thought of being a light of God, just shining his love to everyone I see.
Steve Schneider // December 2, 2008 at 1:47 pm
Robin,
Point number 2 is insightful. I couldn’t agree more.
LaWayne // December 2, 2008 at 9:41 pm
I remember a conversation I had with a co-worker. She and I had absolutely differing opinions on a topic she felt passionately about. At first I found myself getting angry because she wasn’t even willing to listen to my viewpoint, but then I realized we both really wanted the same thing – we just disagreed about how to get there. I told her what I realized, and even though we never did come to an agreement, she felt respected and heard, and I no longer felt attacked. We parted as friends.
That experience helped me see that I need to respect everyone’s right to believe differently than I do, and to not lose sight of the common ground we share.
We live in a culture that is looking for answers when all the “old” answers just don’t seem to fit any more. It’s time we stopped parroting the old lines and let the world see that we are willing to participate in true conversation where we actually respect the other person. If we walk away still disagreeing, it is okay, because we will have earned the right to continue the discussion at another time. And who knows? Now and then I find people on the outside see what I’m missing on the inside.
revelatorart // December 2, 2008 at 10:32 pm
I remember years ago in college I had a roommate who was very open that she did not want to be a Christian. She knew I was a Christian and she wanted to make sure that I wasn’t going to try to “save” her. As I got to know her I realized that she felt judged by the Christians in her life and only desired to be known for who she was (rather than only as a “sinner”). I knew deep in my heart that God only required me to “show” her that His love for her by accepting her for who she was (as a real person). I remember one night in particular (we pulled an all-nighter talking and getting to know each other…I’d ask questions about who she was, and she’d ask questions about who I was). By 6am she said to me with a sigh “go ahead and ask THE question”….(she figured after all of the in-depth conversation that I would naturally “have to” ask her if she wanted to accept Jesus). My response shocked her, I said with a smile “no, I’m not going to ask you…cuz I already know you’re answer and besides, that’s not the reason why I’ve been trying to get to know you. I just want to be your friend.” That all-nighter became the beginning of a good friendship.
Mike // December 2, 2008 at 11:15 pm
Since I visualize James as the brother of Jesus and I know I am a son of God, brother of Jesus, a citizen of heaven, and called for the love and sake of his people, I can’t help but think it is me who needs to be asking forgiveness from the Bill Mahers around me. No problem acknowledging I’ve dropped the ball countless times- forgetting who I am only because of who Jesus made me to be. Too many times I’ve not responded from the abundant love Jesus worked so hard to give me so that I might have a new life with the heart he created me to have. His heart for the oppressed and the lonely. Too often I’ve settled for the cliff note version, not remembering what he has done for me and not living to my potential. There is an interesting song I hear occasionally on the radio, not sure who the artist is, but it goes something like this,” If we are the body why aren’t his hands reaching why aren’t his words teaching….” I’m sure there are many times I’m seen as a person who isn’t reaching out. The good news is none of us would know Jesus if someone hadn’t demonstrated his love to us. The flip side is I know I can be a better man who demonstrates his passion. The common ground I have is not hard to find. Just because I’m a Christian doesn’t mean I stopped living. I still have talents and abilities the same as everyone else. The thing I’m trying to do lately is notice the nature of God in the things my friends do or the words they say. It is compassionate when I point it out and definitely genuine and out of love.
Lucas // December 3, 2008 at 12:02 am
I understand that compassion and love are key, BUT
God works in the absence of compassion. You can’t convince me Jonah was compassionate, but God used him.
I do not like self-flagellation in the least. The only formula for success is God, and He is no formula at all.
Action+God equals transcendence. Motive is not as important. Just a thought.
Dave Miller // December 3, 2008 at 5:20 am
The best way to reach non Christians is to live your life the way we should as Christians. The love for fellow believers & non believers should be equal. Show people this love & they see how you shine so much more, in a world that doesnt encourage you to shine.
James // December 3, 2008 at 7:29 am
re: 3 questions for thought/discussion ( what i can do)
1) I tend a beautiful garden in a location that is a major foothills access point. I believe this project can be used more wisely as a witness for God’s love to all passers-by. Next season, I’m going to use my fenceline to display a “thought for the week”… scriptures, poetry, etc… all with a tone of our Lord’s nurturing, intreating love … using the analogy of a garden.
I’ve often received compliments about the garden but ths year I’ll extend an invitation to come through the gate and take some of the fruit.
2) I’m praying to change negative perception by being a good listener and making strangers feel confortable in my presence… being swift to hear, slow to answer.
3) Could there be any better common ground than a shared point of interest that brings people together for conversation? This is the exciting part… that God gave each of us special interests and a way to reach other “special” people!
-longwriter
Marcus Beresford // December 3, 2008 at 9:43 am
Changing Perceptions
Jesus prayed
“That they may all be one”
Do we believe that we are all one family under God? Do we believe in our hearts that we are all God’s Children and God is our eternal parent. It follows that I must love my brother as God does.
It all begins in me and then expands into my family , my nation and my world. The problem is in me (as St. Paul declared in Romans 7:21-25)
Just for a start let us respect all things as God’s holy creation, respect all men as holy men, respect ourself as a holy person, respect our mind and body as holy (myself. my mind and my body)
Birgit // December 3, 2008 at 11:49 am
2. How can we change the perception people hold of Christians?
I don’t really know if we can. We can change the perception people hold of us as individuals or even (maybe) as an individual church, but I’ve seen a few times that even if people start seeing you as a “good apple” they still quite often believe that you are an exception, and while their opinion of you changes, their opinion of “Christians” as a whole doesn’t.
But I really think that is okay. If people can at least see the possibility that being a Christian *can* be something “other than”, that following Jesus doesn’t mean having to fit into a predetermined religious, behavioral, and political cookie cutter mold, then that opens doors already — even if they still think that is the exception.
As far as personal experience – if you’ve been in churches long enough, you *will* most likely have first hand experience with being offended and hurt by Christians. Christians don’t just offend and hurt non-believers, they quite often hurt and offend other believers, as well. I’ve hurt others, and I’ve been hurt. Yet we are still here (at least most of us…) People who wouldn’t listen to a sermon often will listen to our own stories — what happened to us, how we dealt with it, who we are, what we value.
matthew harrison smith // December 3, 2008 at 10:30 pm
James – you garden sounds fantastic and amazing. I pray that effort will be particularly blessed and I commend those inspirational efforts.
Lindy // December 4, 2008 at 12:10 pm
When I was called into the prisons over 10 years ago, it was the furthest thing from my mind. I only knew I was to be obedient. I knew by my own choices what it was like to be in my own prison. I was set free by Jesus bringing me to a complete place of emptiness. As I sat at an opening of a Christiam prison program, Chuck Colson began to speak, my heart began racing and I wanted my feet to follow suit. (The gates and guards were very visible.) I began to argue with God that I was so not qualified as a Bible teacher, afterall, I really had the Bible all wrong since Jesus was not my foundation! He broke into my panic and said “I didn’t call you to quote scripture, but to love them and that I will do through you.” Being broken, loving broken people, even those who are unlovely, is how the Lord considered using my life. My own Father had been incarcerated, bingo. As I go inside, being available and transparent is how I find the common ground to talk about faith. The unlovely, are so loving when they are connected to Jesus’ unconditional love!
katie coe // December 5, 2008 at 4:30 pm
for what it’s worth:
When Tri presented this idea last week, I believe the Lord gave me a picture of one aspect of “James” – whomever he may be.
I saw a section of a vineyard – with ripe, full, juicy, beautiful grapes – the effort they put forward was staying on the vine, maturing, basking in the sun and smelling wonderful. A starving, big-eyed, round bellied boy came up to the grapes, barely able to reach to fruit – but reach he did – unaided by the grapes – and eat he did. His eyes were brightened, his spirit lifted, his stomach filled. And what do you suppose he did? He went and told his starving sisters and brothers – and brought them to the vineyard.
They were fed and filled – eventually they met the owner of the vineyard – they were welcomed out of the field and into the banquet hall.
I hope this grape tastes full and ripe and sweet to those who need sustenance… I pray to be forgiven for the times when I am green and miserable and sour – keep me on the Vine, Lord, keep me growing, keeping me ripening. Give me wisdom, Lord, to not think I am further developed than I am. Keep me smelling sweet, Father – don’t let me rot, in the same spot, smothered and unable to feel your sunshine, your fresh air.
Josh // December 7, 2008 at 1:11 am
Camilla’s Comment: “I think one of the first things we have got to own as Christians is that as long as we are perceived in a certain light, it is reality. I mean is that we can debate how we’re seen and whom is responsible for misconceptions … we can share anecdotes and our own experiences. But that won’t get us anywhere until we just admit that as long as SOMEONE thinks poorly of Christians (and therefore Christianity, Jesus, and God), we have work to do.”
Jesus says in Matt 15:18-23 “If the world hates you, know that it has hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you, A slave is not greater than his master. If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you; if they kept My word, they will keep yours also. But all these things they will do to you for My name’s sake, because they do not know the One who sent Me. If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have sin, but now they have no excuse for their sin.
He who hates Me hates My Father also.
Marcus Beresford // December 7, 2008 at 10:40 am
I am sure you know the fallen world saying that “anyone can be bought” (it is just a matter of discussing the price that they will accept).
Heaven works on the opposite principle – Jesus has paid the price. Therefore the Bill Maher’s can be saved, just as Jesus saved Saul on the road to Damascus.
If we are serving Jesus don’t we have to follow his path? If so then surely we have to pay the price for each soul with our blood, sweat and tears.
The question is “How much am I willing to pay to save Bill or anyone else?”
Dan // December 7, 2008 at 7:23 pm
One thing I know is that we don’t make friends or win when we argue. It only develops walls and more firmly plants the feet of the opposition. I think we christians have been arguing too long and not living the example. The result is distrust and frankly, cultures, employers, and collegues often just don’t want us around. Where as, it should be that people want to be near us because we are sincere, honest, uplifting, and good employees.
I personally have certain quotes posted on my office cork board. At the top of the list is one by Abraham Lincoln that needs to be a goal for all of us. “Do I not destroy my enemies when I make them my friends?”
Theresa // December 7, 2008 at 8:05 pm
A couple weeks ago some coworkers and I went out for a drink together after a hard day’s work in corporate America. About an hour into the evening the discussion turned to church and it’s relevance or irrelevance in our lives. One lady had been hurt by a church in the past and was pretty angry/defensive. The other Christian coworker at the table boldly but respectfully looked her in the eyes and apologized on behalf of the church and invited her back. The lady’s demeanor completely changed, and the walls came down. We were able to share the relevance of the church. Along with Hoyt’s comments today of living a life of excellence according to Colossians 3:22-25, we can be relevant in the workplace.
Marcus Beresford // December 7, 2008 at 10:34 pm
Yesterday evening Keith and Lindy hosted the Prison Fellowship dinner. It was a wonderful evening, in part because of one of the two guests speakers. T o be brief, this lady had gone through so much suffering throughout her life, family tragedy, dysfunctional family, abuse , alcohol etc. Her faith had been destroyed and she had resentment to God, Jesus, the church and all. She had been through AA and rehabs many times and used the system. One day in a rehab a minister came by and aked her to close her eyes and picture her real parent.
The image of Jesus appeared, small at first but the more she fought it the bigger he became. from that day in 1982 she change her life utterly and absolutely, became a nurse and has given so much.
What a beautiful story! It tells us so much. 1.Yes Christ can save anyone.
2. He could not have saved her without the faith and love of a humble man who cared. He needs us to care.
3. Her topic – the recipe for recovery – is that it is our caring and compassion that brings recovery. When she could only look at her feet the people at the rehab would bend down to look her in the eyes, talk to her with respect and value her.
4. It teaches us that not only did Jesus come to fulfil Isaiah 61 and give us the commission of Matthew 24, but it gives us the reason why
- God is our invisible parent beyond time and space and Jesus manifests his love in the flesh for us to see. Jesus is our physical true parent, the Adam that God hoped for, the true ancestor of humankind.
I cannot begin to comprehend how much the fall has caused our Heavenly Faher endless grief and pain. Tragically God lost his children and lineage and with it His right to ownership of this world. Attending the Re:Form conference talks on Human Trafficking we all cried, yet this is only the very tip of our Heavenly Father’s constant agony.
5. It is all about lineage – whose your Daddy?
The enemy claims us as his children, his family, corrupting us and defiling our lineage to increase his power and to taunt God . We see this in the evil of human trafficking, the drug cartels and the Mafia.
6. Satan won’t let us go without a fight. Satan’s world is epitomised by the false “Gang” families – he always wants payback and no one gets out alive. Our true father loves and forgets that he loves and gives us eternal life.
Today Pastor Tri read from Timothy and it was clear that the world then and now is deluded into believing the lineage of the enemy is the lifeline the world depends on. satan shows us the bait, luring us with money, possessions, sex, fame and power. God only needs our true love and that is what He gives us and wants us to give others.
Jesus brings us back into God’s family and gives us the seed of God’s true love, restoring the fall.
Not only did Jesus give his life for us, he gave up his opprtunity to have a marriage a family and descendants so that we could be his family. To me this is even more of a sacrifice than giving his life on the cross.
Isaiah 53: 8
“By oppression and judgment he was taken away. And who can speak of his descendants? For he was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgression of my people he was stricken.”
In conclusion, it is not just about being saved as an individual, or a child of God, it is about being part of God’s Family, with the true love for parents’ brothers and sisters and children.
P.s. Sorry fellow bloggers – My great grandfather was a Methodist minister and my grandfather was very active in the Anglican High Church – my wife thinks they still like to give sermons!
Jon Hoffman // December 7, 2008 at 11:32 pm
In response to Theresa, I would say that our intent is honorable but we sometimes, “In the name of the Lord” dispense judgement instead of mercy. I was at one time of the thought that I had been enlightened, but what it really was was that my eyes had just adjusted to the darkness and I thought I could really see better. In my search for meaning and significance I sometimes engage my mouth before my heart and brain and what I meant for good and encouragement was a dismal failure. I love what St. Francis of Assissi said, ” Preach the Gospel, use words if necessary”. I (we) will be measured by our actions and not our words. I want to be able to be a part of making church an attraction, not just a distraction. So often we perceive that significance can only come by doing something of great magnitude, and, independent of others. I have learned that it is the love that others give to me is what makes me great and gives me my sense of significance. I have been given two ears and one mouth which in my math means twice as much listening as talking. We have been given the incredible and unlimited power of choice. I wish to be relevant but it will be my “choice” as to where and with whom, I will be relevant to. I choose Christ and all that goes with Him. I also choose to accept the input, direction, criticism and love that is given me by others who I know have a genuine love for and service to, Him. I truly love being a part of God’s “family” and look forward to the continued adventure.
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